Theresa Freed [00:00:00] On this episode, find out how Johnson County is helping guide businesses through the use of COVID-19 safety precautions. It's an effort to protect employees and the public and find out how Johnson County businesses are faring in these challenging times. Which industries are surviving and thriving?
Announcer [00:00:17] Whether you live in or just love Johnson County, Kansas, JoCo on the Go has everything Johnson County. Here's what's happening and what's coming up in the community you call home.
Theresa Freed [00:00:29] Thanks for joining us for JoCo on the Go. I'm your host Theresa Freed, a Johnson County, resident and employee of Johnson County Government. There is no doubt that many Johnson County businesses have taken a hit as the COVID-19 pandemic spread to northeast Kansas. Since the beginning of March, things haven't been quite the same. During the spring and summer, we saw some businesses required to temporarily close and then reopening with restrictions.
Theresa Freed [00:00:53] Today, we're going to hear from two area experts first on how businesses can protect their staff and their customers. And then we're gonna hear more about how businesses can survive the pandemic. We're going to start with Amanda Prough. She has an important role with the county. Thanks for being here. So can you talk a little bit about what you do?
Amanda Prough [00:01:09] I am the City Readiness Initiative coordinator and emergency public health preparedness planner for Johnson County Department of Health and Environment. I prior to COVID-19, I work with the City Readiness Initiative Jurisdictions, which has a five county area on the Kansas side that includes Leavenworth, Johnson, Wyandotte, Lynn and Miami counties.
Amanda Prough [00:01:34] And I help them plan for mass dispensing events. As of right now, during COVID-19 response, I am now with what we're calling the business liaison. I am helping businesses understand their roles and responsibilities during the COVID-19 response and helping them walk through the guidance of what they need to do if they have an employee that is positive or they've just have, you know, basic questions about COVID-19, what they need to do to clean the facility, what do they need to do when an employee is identified as positive or they've been notified by a client or customer that that they are positive, and we develop the business guidance more to answer a lot of these questions and provide a tool for them to use in their in their response to COVID-19.
Theresa Freed [00:02:18] And where can employers find this guidance?
Amanda Prough [00:02:20] This guidance is located on Johnson County's website at jocogov.org.
Theresa Freed [00:02:25] So when would a business get a call from you?
Amanda Prough [00:02:28] Yes. So I'm reaching out to businesses that have either been identified during a case investigation as having a positive employee. And so I'll help by reaching out to that business to notify them of a positive employee and help them walk through how do they identify the close contacts? How long does that employee have to be excluded from work and answer any questions that they may have stemming from that? I'll also reach out to businesses who have been have reached out to Johnson County and have questions about what they need to do. So pretty much I'm just the question-and-answer person. And if I don't know the answer to a question they have, then I find the right place that they need to, need to go to get that information.
Theresa Freed [00:03:10] Is it typical if there is a case that we always contact the employer?
Amanda Prough [00:03:14] Not necessarily at all. It depends on whether the employee was at work during their infectious period. If the employee was not at their place of employment during their infectious period, then the employer will not be contacted because there was no risk to that, to that business. There may be times where I'm not necessarily the person that will reach out to the businesses and facilities. There may be a case investigator, one of our epidemiologists that will reach out to them to talk to them about their employee or to get more information if they're doing a case investigation.
Theresa Freed [00:03:46] So if the positive person was at work, someone will let the employer know, is that right?
Amanda Prough [00:03:51] Yes, we do have to get permission from our positive cases to reach out to their employer. So that's part of our case investigation. So if one positive case does not identify their employer or will not release information, then we won't be able to reach out to the employer or business. If they do give us an employer, but then they say we cannot reach out to them, then at that point in time, we also cannot reach out to the employer.
Theresa Freed [00:04:18] What if the employee is not a resident of Johnson County, then what do you do?
Amanda Prough [00:04:22] If the employee is not a resident of Johnson County, this is where we depend a lot on our businesses in Johnson County to notify us if it is, if they get notified by their employee that they are positive, but say that employee lives in another jurisdiction like Kansas City, Missouri, or, you know, Wyandotte County, then that employer could reach out to us so we can help them in their response and and answer any questions that they may have, but we're not notified of positive cases that are not in our jurisdiction.
Theresa Freed [00:04:51] So tell me more about the workplace guidance. Why and how was that developed?
Amanda Prough [00:04:55] We knew that with many businesses reopening or expanding their services again, that they were going to need help navigating how to manage a positive employee, a customer or a client. And they were going to have a lots of questions. And so this guidance was to put together some of our most frequently asked questions and our, and our guidance that we have regarding isolation and quarantine and when to exclude employees into one place, so they have one document to look to because there's so many different sources of information out there. And so that's why this business, this workplace guidance was developed. And it is a living document as our information changes and as this, our response changes, we will be updating this document to reflect that information.
Theresa Freed [00:05:37] So is this an extensive manual or is it easy for the public to use?
Amanda Prough [00:05:41] No, I believe it's a very user friendly document. We have highlighted important sections in boxes. So employers room know, like we've boxed all the information about symptoms. So it's an easy to find location for that. There are lots of good headers for the different sections. So you'll know exactly what you know, what area you need to refer to. We also have attached template letters at the end of the document. And those are letters for you to notify your employees if they've been exposed. And that really is a great resource for you to have. That way, you don't have to develop your own. And also, there is a an email address that is listed in document, [email protected]. So [email protected]. And that is our email address for all businesses can send questions regarding the guidance document, or if you've got a scenario at your facility or business that doesn't necessarily get answered with this document, please feel free to send those questions there, and we can you make sure that we get you an answer.
Theresa Freed [00:06:53] So what are some of the common questions that you're getting from businesses?
Amanda Prough [00:06:56] We are hearing a lot. So our most common questions are what do I do when I have an employee that tests positive? You know, does my employee need a negative test before they return to work? If you have an employee that traveled, they want to know if they need to quarantine, you know, how to identify close contacts, what to do when a client or customer test positive and notifies you. So those are some of our most common questions that are being asked. And so, for instance, what do you do when you do have an employee that test positive? The first thing you're going to do is find out when they either became symptomatic or were tested and see if they were at work when they were infectious. And all of that information is included in our guidance document. And if they were infectious while they were at work, then that's when we go through, and you could reach out to myself or to the employer email, and we can address the situation. But mainly it's if you have an employee that tests positive, it's identifying close contacts. If they were wearing masks properly or they social distancing properly, and then identifying those other employees that may need to be excluded from work in order to quarantine for the 14 days after exposure. But all of those questions are answered in our business guidance document. And so it's a very helpful one-stop shop to be able to answer those most frequently asked questions.
Theresa Freed [00:08:19] If I'm an employer and I'm told an employee has tested positive, so what's the first thing I need to do? Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Amanda Prough [00:08:27] The first thing you would need to do is look at the schedule of when your employee was actually at work and then talk to them about when they were symptomatic or when they got tested. If they were symptomatic, we're looking at the day they became symptomatic and three days prior to when they were some, they developed symptoms. If they were at work during those times, they were infectious. And so you're going need to notify the people that they worked with that they may have been possibly exposed to somebody who has COVID-19. Now, granted, what's important to do during this time is that you have to protect the information of that employee that is positive. You cannot tell the other employees that they that they work with who they are. You need to protect their name and identifying information as much as possible. I know in some small businesses that will be difficult to do, but you need to go to the best that you can do to protect that information. And then you can reach out to the health department. If there's a question that you have that's not covered in the guidance about who to exclude or how to determine a close contact, that's when you reach out to us and we'll help you with that.
Theresa Freed [00:09:30] So if more than one employee test positive, does it necessarily mean I need to shut down?
Amanda Prough [00:09:34] Not necessarily. There are some businesses that make that decision in order to close down by their own protocols and procedures, in order to do deep cleaning and to make sure their staff is separated and can isolate for some period of time. But we look at every single scenario. And if you have two people that have tested positive in your facility, but everybody else is wearing masks properly, you're cleaning your high touch surfaces properly, everybody's keeping their social distance, your break rooms are socially distanced, and so people aren't eating and talking really close to each other with their masks off. There are lots of steps you can put into place that can prevent you from having to close. And that's that's what we want to make sure out there. We're not recommending that a business close if they have one positive or two positives. You know, we're here to help you identify those close contacts and to prevent you from having any other outbreaks.
Theresa Freed [00:10:29] What if an employee has been exposed to COVID-19 but hasn't necessarily tested positive, so say a family member is positive?
Amanda Prough [00:10:36] If you have a household member, an employee that is a household member that has tested positive for COVID-19 or has symptoms that are COVID-19-like, you need to have them stay home for the 14 days. They are considered exposed. Now, say this person goes and gets tested during their 14 day quarantine and the test is negative. That does not mean that they're released from their 14 day quarantine. They need to stay in that 14 day quarantine for the full 14 days. A negative test only means that you're negative at that point in time that you were tested. And we have seen that COVID-19 will continue to build in your system, and you might not have enough virus in your system when you were tested early in your quarantine to be positive, but you could become symptomatic up until the 14th day. And that's why important that people stay in that quarantine for a full 14 days.
Theresa Freed [00:11:29] So if the person was just exposed, is there cause for concern?
Amanda Prough [00:11:33] No, not at all. Exposure to an exposed person does not put you at any risk. As long as that person is not symptomatic, it just means that they, that's their exposure. They need a quarantine. It doesn't affect you or your staff. Your business can continue to operate as normal because there were no risks to the employees.
Theresa Freed [00:11:53] If there are cases that a business, should all staff be tested?
Amanda Prough [00:11:56] Not necessarily. That is one thing that we want to remind people is all testing does right now is tell you when you're, if you're positive or negative at that point of testing. Depending on your exposure risk, if you wore a mask, the other person wore a mask, you were separated by six feet, you're not considered a close contact. You're very, very low risk. If, you know, it'd be a different situation if all of your employees were not wearing masks and you were within the six feet and talking, then they would need to be quarantined. But testing wise, testing doesn't give you whether you're going to become positive or not. We just recommend the 14 days of quarantine. If they become symptomatic, they need to reach out to their primary care provider to see if their primary care provider would recommend testing. But at this point in time, we're not recommending testing for everybody in a in a business if they've been exposed.
Theresa Freed [00:12:53] We've been hearing a little bit from employees saying they need a negative COVID-19 test return to work. Is that something the health department is requiring?
Amanda Prough [00:13:01] No, we do not require a negative test for an employee to go back to work after being positive. The reason we do not require that is because the virus can stay in the system for a very long time. And the current testing right now can't tell between live virus and dead virus. So somebody who is recovered and are 10 days out from their symptom onset or at least 24 hours fever free and their symptoms have improved, are outside their infectious period. But they may continue to test positive just because they have dead virus in their system. And so that's why we don't recommend a negative test, because it could be weeks before some people clear the virus completely out of their system.
Theresa Freed [00:13:42] So what's the ultimate goal with the mask mandate and these other safety precautions?
Amanda Prough [00:13:46] That's a question we get a lot in. The mass mandate is in place to help lower cases, protect our vulnerable populations and keep our businesses open. And the same goes for the six feet of social distancing and good hand hygiene and washing your hands often. All of that is part of our toolbox. Those are tools that we have right now to protect ourselves against the spread of COVID-19. And so that is why the mask mandate is so important. We're already seeing a slight plateauing of our cases. And so we hope as people continue to wear their mask and social distance properly, that we'll see our numbers start to decrease.
Theresa Freed [00:14:21] So is public health considering the impact of the economy when mandates and recommendations are made?
Amanda Prough [00:14:26] Yes, we are. We ultimately know the impact that it has had on our community and our economy. And that is why wearing a mask, practicing social distancing and good hand hygiene are so important. The more we do that and the more we lower the cases, the more we can keep our businesses open. And we don't have to risk going backwards in our phases of reopening and possibly having another stay-at-home order.
Theresa Freed [00:14:50] Will there be a point when we can stop wearing masks? Do you think?
Amanda Prough [00:14:53] Great question. The safety measures are in place for the foreseeable future. Like I've said, it's our toolbox. These are our tools that we have to protect ourselves at this time. Now, when there is a vaccine available, we may be able to relax some of these measures, but that depends on how many people get vaccinated and the data that we gather, you know, do we have enough immunity from this vaccine? Do the people that have been positive, do they have immunity that lasts? So there's a lot of questions. So as of for right now, the safety measures are just in place for the foreseeable future.
Theresa Freed [00:15:24] Is a deep clean required if there's a positive case out of business?
Amanda Prough [00:15:29] Well, we do not go out and inspect your businesses to see if you're clean enough or if you're wearing the masks properly. But we do recommend cleaning of all high-touch surfaces on a regular routine basis. And if you do have a positive, it is a good idea to do a deep clean. But these are recommendations, and in our guidance, we do list some resources for cleaning materials. And so but if you do have any questions about how to cleaner facility or what needs to be cleaned, that's something that you can reach out to the health department about.
Theresa Freed [00:15:58] So what can businesses do to prevent customers from bringing COVID-19 into their establishments?
Amanda Prough [00:16:03] First and foremost, having a mask policy and making sure that mask policy is followed not only by your employees, but by the people that are coming into your establishment. And that masks are being worn the correct way, which means over their nose, over their mouth, the whole time, not pulling it down underneath their nose or mouth to talk, but making sure that it does stay covering those areas properly the whole time that they are at work. You know, you can arrange for mask breaks, allowing employees to maybe go into a back room or go outside where they're socially distanced to be able to take the mask off and have a breather. I do understand that they do get warm. And so it is important to make sure that your employees do, are able to take some breaks. Maintaining that physical distancing. That's a very important. I understand that there are some businesses where that is harder to do. And so there are things you can put into place like the plexiglass in order to separate people. You know, those instances, you can even have alternate shifts where not everybody is working at the same time, but you can have an alternate schedule and then making sure that employees have time for hand hygiene, making sure that you have adequate hand sanitizer or a hand washing station where employees can wash their hands on a regular basis. That's extremely important. If you are a business that uses gloves, you know, going over the proper way to use gloves, making sure they're being used the right way, taken, put on the right way. Wash your hands. Put on the gloves. Make sure you don't touch your face. If you do touch a surface or your face, take the gloves off, off properly, wash hands. It is better to wash hands. Gloves create a false sense of security. And so a lot of people will do things with gloves on that they would never do if they were washing their hands, because they automatically think the gloves protect them, and they sort of forget. We've seen there are studies that have shown that glove use also decreases handwashing and people aren't doing that properly. And so if you're a business that does not need to wear gloves, you would not wear them on a regular basis, then we don't recommend that you start to wear gloves. And so that's just was very important. Hand washing and hand hygiene are one of the most important things to stop the spread of any disease or virus. And then if you have the ability, encourage your employees to continue to work from home. If that is something that works for your business or organization, that is the safest place for them to be is working from home. And then, of course, current travel restrictions, making sure that you look at the Kansas Department of Health and Environment's Web site for their travel quarantine recommendations. That's really important to make sure as vacations start to uptick or people go to travel to see family, that if they are coming back, that they're quarantined for that 14 days after they return from travel.
Theresa Freed [00:18:47] All right. That's great information. And, of course, we'll have the workplace guidance in our show notes. Next up, we have Jeff Shackleford with the Enterprise Center in Johnson County. Thanks for joining us.
Jeff Shackleford [00:18:57] My pleasure to be here Theresa.
Theresa Freed [00:18:59] All right. Well, just to start off with, I know we've talked about this last time on our podcast episode, but just an update. Where are we at with Johnson County businesses and how are they doing, especially adapting to that mask mandate?
Jeff Shackleford [00:19:10] I guess where we are is is still in a state of turmoil. There's still so much uncertainty. We're continuing ... You know, how did they survive, particularly with the restaurant service industry is continues to struggle. The thought of ever having to need a second shutdown is something I don't think they really want to think about, because it even, even, virtually impossible for many of them to survive. I think there is some, some hope that there's this second stimulus package at the federal level that could, seems to be being discussed at least, ping ponging back and forth between the two parties. But that would be extremely helpful and absolutely necessary for most of the businesses here. I will say, if you look at Johnson County as a whole and compare it to two kind of other cities that are across the state, we're surviving as well as any, as anybody. But that said, that's certain, certainly not saying we're doing well. We're basically surviving best we can.
Theresa Freed [00:20:17] Ok, and are we seeing more businesses reopening? I know, especially when, when certain industries had to shut down or close our business for a temporary time, some of them I've seen have not reopened. Is that consistent with what's, what's happening or are we seeing a lot of them just kind of reopening in different ways?
Jeff Shackleford [00:20:36] You're seeing some that haven't reopened and really struggling to kind of figure out, how do I reopen? What are the requirements with respect to safety and cleaning and so on and so forth? Then a lot of them, how do I get, I got to rehire. I have to restaff. And depending on the process you used to do that, it's not as though you can throw the light switch on and you've got your entire staff back. Many of the, many of the workers who were displaced from earlier jobs may have found other ones. And so now you're talking about, I've to find new people. I got to train new people. I got to get them up to speed. So, you know, people think it's as easy as throwing a light switch on, and it's not. You know, the struggles have been, you know, just paying rent and keeping your space has been a struggle for a lot of those in the service industry. And we're continuing to see that. I will say on a positive note through our women's business center, we're starting to get people to call and ask questions about how do I start a business. And so, you know what I think we're going to see whenever we call post-COVID, it's never going to go to the to what we knew as normal. And we're going to need a lot of new entrepreneurs to step in and take those risk and say now might be a time for me to start it with the help of a lot of folks and a lot of the organizations we have. But we need that, because there's going to be many that just say, "I'm done."
Theresa Freed [00:22:04] So what kinds of industries are we seeing wanting to start up new or which ones are doing well?
Jeff Shackleford [00:22:11] I was talking with one of our folks that works at the Women's Business Center this morning, and she said, surprisingly, people are talking about restaurants, coffee houses and things along those lines. So my, you know, part of me says, well, there might be an opportunity because the rent might be, never be less than it is now, because you're going to have a lot of winter speaking spaces. There's, you know, people are still going to need to eat and drink coffee and want to do those things, so there may be those opportunities, but boy the timing is going to have to be right. If you try to start too soon, you won't be able to survive. It's never, you know I never, looked at it as well, well, hey, one closes, another one opens and that's great, because it's not great. It's still, still devastating to the ones that close. You know, I think you'll see a lot in the service sector try to say, is this the time to step in now? But that's got to be, as we honestly all believe, we're past the worst of this epidemic. And I don't know when that is.
Theresa Freed [00:23:14] And I think you kind of touched on this, too. You know, interest rates are low. There is some benefit, I guess, to some businesses starting up. Can you talk a little bit about more on how people can kind of capitalize on that?
Jeff Shackleford [00:23:29] Well, again, I think if you're going to need retail space, there's probably going to be a bit of a glut of it that's out there and landlords who unexpectedly have vacancies that they just had, you know, if I had a three-year lease, but I'm out of business, I'm out of business. So I think you may see some flexibility in being able to get in and maybe even get the space built out to your liking. We say interest rates are low, but borrowing money to start a business is pretty difficult because typically, you know, you're going to have to collateralize or they're going to want something versus just goodwill. But the SBA programs, microloan programs that we have, there's the AltCap here makes microloans, so if you're in a business that maybe needs 10, 20 thousand dollars to get started, there is access to that. I think, I think it's it's going to be filling gaps, that we that we say, look, we know we need these services and somebody has got to fill them, and there's the opportunity there to do that. I would suggest working with an SBA affiliate organization to see what is available for a small business owner.
Jeff Shackleford [00:24:39] And if you're a business that, that hunkered down and and survives this, then I think the question is what do we need to scale to get to the next level, because I survived probably the worst business climate they're ever going to see. Now I want to grow. And so if you have a bit of a track record, you could probably look at some SBA type of loan programs, maybe even some community based type programs to get yourself some working capital.
Theresa Freed [00:25:06] Last time we talked, we talked a little bit about how it was important for certain businesses to adapt by going online and turning their businesses online. Are we still seeing that need? And how has remote work kind of impacted companies' ability to survive this?
Jeff Shackleford [00:25:25] Well, the first part, I think the need is still there for remote. Excuse me, for online abilities, whether that's, you know, that you're still seeing many, many restaurants pushing the takeout, because personally, I'm not sure how many people still feel uncomfortable. I'll be honest with you, myself and my wife, we only go out if we can sit outside, because we don't have to deal with what, what's the inside environment, so the opportunity to still do take out. Your retail, groceries and so on, still, absolutely. My 87-year-old mother sends me her grocery list, and I order it online and it gets delivered to her house, because I don't want her going to the grocery store. So you still got a pretty big faction of the population that would, if, if the opportunity is there, would prefer to do things online, and as touchless as possible. On the remote side, most of the businesses that we've spoken with are still offering remote workplace that if you don't need to come in and don't feel like you have to. They've kind of adjusted, which again, from a survey, if you look at the particular if you look at the restaurant industry, right, if, if everyone's not going in those typical, let's say hypothetically, the Corporate Woods environment, then they're also not going to lunch in and around that corporate environment, and that ripple effect is tough on those businesses. You know, this is just my opinion, but in the future, I think we're going to see a decent percentage of the workforce continue to work remotely, which, which could be an opportunity for for us here and particularly in the state of Kansas and maybe in the more rural communities to attract, hey, you can work for a large company remotely in an area that has a cost of living that's much more affordable and a little more pleasant than maybe your big urban communities.
Theresa Freed [00:27:14] So also talking about safety precautions at restaurants and other businesses, how have they been dealing with the mask mandate? Because I know that's that's something very different, you know, especially for restaurants where there you have to remove a mask to eat. And you also, you've got people standing in line. You know, there's that physical distancing that they have to maintain or they're limiting the number of people who can come into their store, so that may impact the business there as well. So what changes are you seeing?
Jeff Shackleford [00:27:44] The restaurants that I personally have see are, certainly all the staff is adhering to what they should be. The tables are either, some are, some are sort of closed, if you will, or have already been spaced out, which is very helpful. And typically, I've seen the patrons inside while not eating and drinking, walk in with a mask, intent to leave it on when they walk out. So at least when you're in, you're walking back and forth. But I do think ... what, what ... to properly clean every night and disinfect is an added expense that they're taking on. But it wasn't figured into their into their, into their costs and so on and so forth, as well as just finding the people to do it and the disinfectants and the things that you need. Absolutely, to get it done, it's just been, it's just an added burden for them.
Theresa Freed [00:28:42] It is beneficial in terms of the bottom line for for businesses to take those safety measures so they don't have to shut down, so is that message resonating, do you think, with business owners?
Jeff Shackleford [00:28:54] Yeah, I think I think those that had to shut down and now are saying, just tell me what I have to do to stay open, because if you've continued it, if I have to continue to be shut down, I'm done. And so it's sort of that, you know, you'll do what you have to do to stay open. So I think, I think the biggest challenges when you're dealing with the general public, is getting the general public to adhere to what you need to do to stay open, right. I mean, that's the frustrating part, is I need you to wear a mask when you're in this store. You've still got a faction that says, I don't want to. You know, then as a business owner, you're risking ... I'm gonna ask you to leave, which potentially you may never come back as a customer. But if I don't ask you to leave and I get a case, it's just a precarious situation to be in. I'm actually working at home today because the the office space that we're in, they shut down the air conditioner because they're installing the disinfectant tools and mechanisms to spray this stuff through the air conditioning, through the vents, the heating and air conditioning, which I applaud and say "I love it," but I can't imagine ... this is a fairly large office park with lots of buildings ... The added expense that they put it. But again, they looked at it as if we don't do it now, what's that mean in the future? So it's a, it's always a precarious situation to be a, to be an entrepreneur anyway or a small business owner. It's just, it's just been magnified or grown exponentially as to the risk and the things that you have to deal with. The stress levels are extremely, extremely high.
Theresa Freed [00:30:27] Just final question. Can you talk a little bit about what resources are available to businesses trying to navigate this pandemic, and then also, how can our listeners support businesses in Johnson County?
Jeff Shackleford [00:30:38] With respect to relief funds and loan programs and forgiveness and so on, is work with an SBA affiliate? So you've got the Small Business Development Center at Johnson County Community College. You've got the Small Business Development Center at the UMKC Innovation Centers, so both sides of the state line. We have, the Enterprise Center has the Women's Business Center, which we've opened up. You don't just, they're not just serving women business owners now, so they are an SBA affiliate. You can certainly reach out to them as well. Network Kansas is a tremendous resource with respect to getting information that's the most pertinent when it comes to the federal programs and what the SBA can do. There are other resources. The KC COVID Relief Fund, which is administered by AltCap, is a microloan type program that continues to to make smaller loans and immediate and so on. So I think don't be afraid to reach out to to any organization, your chambers, your Chamber of Commerce can help. They have a lot of information that they'll be able to direct you to some of these same places that I'd mentioned as well. So don't feel like you're on an island and there's nobody, there is no way off and there's no help here. No, there is. And sometimes you just kind of need to vent, and when we're happy to hear that as well. What I would tell you is, if you're going to order online, order locally, right? Find a local company that can provide it. I mean, I know there's the big nationals, and they make you may think they're easier and so on, but those dollars leave the community. So can you find what you're looking for from a local provider? Maybe once or twice a week, make it, it make it a point to order out dinner or or lunch or something. You know, spending your dollars locally, right now, has never been more critical to keep these places afloat. And then what we hope for is get through this and whatever the new normal is, but it is not going to be back to what it was. You know, we can help them grow from there.
Theresa Freed [00:32:40] All right. That's great information. And thank you so much for joining us today. And thanks for listening.
Jeff Shackleford [00:32:45] Theresa, my pleasure, and I'm happy to do it any time.
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